Triller's New CEO on Its Metrics and Music Controversies and the Company's Fight Club Plans

Sam Blake

Sam primarily covers entertainment and media for dot.LA. Previously he was Marjorie Deane Fellow at The Economist, where he wrote for the business and finance sections of the print edition. He has also worked at the XPRIZE Foundation, U.S. Government Accountability Office, KCRW, and MLB Advanced Media (now Disney Streaming Services). He holds an MBA from UCLA Anderson, an MPP from UCLA Luskin and a BA in History from University of Michigan. Email him at samblake@dot.LA and find him on Twitter @hisamblake

Triller

Since acquiring a controlling stake in Triller in 2019, Hollywood financier Ryan Kavanaugh and his partner at Proxima Media, Bobby Sarnevesht, have transformed the company. They've made at least five acquisitions, expanded the scope of their platform far beyond short-form, user-generated music videos and reportedly explored going public. Earlier this month, they brought on a new chief executive, Mahi de Silva, who took the helm from Mike Lu, who is now president and focused on investor relations.

De Silva, who joined Triller's board at the same time Kavanaugh and Sarnevesht took control, offers a decidedly different tone than his predecessor Lu. The former executive for Verisign and most recently the head of Bay Area-based Amplify.ai, a digital chatbot tool that lets brands interact with customers, De Silva said he's focused on creating strong relationships with partners after some very public disputes.

Mahi de Silva

Mahi de Silva is Triller's new CEO.

Universal Music Group pulled its extensive catalog off the app in February, claiming that Triller "has shamefully withheld payments" and that its public statement about the situation was "removed from reality." Late last year, Wixen Music Publishing sued Triller for copyright infringement, and Triller has been called out in the past by the head of the National Music Publishers' Association for playing loose with its copyright obligations.

Triller, which launched in 2015, originally focused entirely on helping musicians create mobile video content but has expanded into livestreaming, live entertainment and even TrillerTV, which includes long-form content, including its own boxing brand, Triller Fight Club.

Along the way, Triller has faced accusations of inflating its user figures and flouting the need for proper music licensing.

Nevertheless, Triller has continued to grow its user base and balance sheet. As of late 2021, the company claimed around 18 million daily active users and 65 million monthly active users. That is well short of the many social media companies with which de Silva hopes to compete. dot.LA interviewed the new CEO to discuss his plans to change that, his views on Triller's public disputes and whether rumors are true that Triller plans to go public.

This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.

Triller now looks like much more than a short-form social video app. Was that the plan when Ryan and Bobby got involved and brought you in as a board member?

Mahi de Silva: The original thesis was to say, look, we think we can do this better than it being a simple short-form video app. If you think about the progression of YouTube to TikTok – and we have to give TikTok credit; they've done a pretty good job of taking content, making it super bite size, and making it easy to consume – we felt that we could help curate content, particularly bringing in tier-one, top-shelf content, and creating kind of a gateway to broader content, whether it be long-form or even movies. I think the reason Ryan brought me in was that back in the early 2000s, when I ran the wireless business at VeriSign, I built the largest ringtone business in the world. And it was about taking the power of music and making it into these super bite-sized things that were part of your mobile phone experience and it blew up and we built that into half a billion dollar a year business. So it was kind of a confluence of all of that, and being able to bring content and creators together to drive better awareness, better distribution, better monetization of that content.

Boxing isn't exactly a growth industry. Why was that the choice as the first step toward expanding your entertainment footprint beyond music?

Mahi de Silva: Boxing is iconic when it comes to pay-per-view. We saw an opportunity particularly in working with folks like Mike Tyson, to create really a tentpole event out of that. But we've taken a very different approach to boxing: the theatrical production of the event, the camera angles; it's using the most sophisticated technology that you'd see in very high-value production television and movies enter into the sporting arena. We also brought in lots of different artists, lots of different voices, that would appeal to an audience that wasn't a boxing fan. It's the ability to broaden the appeal of an event like this, and then really understanding how people respond to it.

To what extent do you see that expansion into different types and formats of entertainment playing into the Triller app?

Mahi de Silva: The center of our universe today is the app, so the first thing we do is we put the world's best creator tools into the app, so it's super easy to use the content you might have on your phone or the content you created, be able to integrate that with video, mix it, do effects, do filters. And then we do this unusual thing which is we make it easy for you to spread that anywhere and everywhere. You can send it to Instagram and YouTube and Snapchat and wherever you want to. We think by doing that, we are creating a different sort of distribution strategy for creators. And at the same time, we're creating tools where creators can track those posts, those shares, and draw more consumers into that content, and try to create a more lasting relationship with them. So it's not this, "let me go and build my Instagram audience, my Snapchat audience or my TikTok audience"; we're trying to enable them to think about, "okay, here's my content, here's where I distribute it, and here's my audience." We also want to help them monetize that in different ways. We think about the network effect starting with our app, but syndicating content all over the digital universe. And we also think that that snacky, 10-15 second video can be parlayed into more long-form experiences. You can do that even on our platform, moving from the short-form to TrillerTV, or being part of the content that we create for these pay-per-view types of experiences. Today that could be everything that's enabled in the FITE TV world, things that are created through the Verzuz world, and on these other platforms as well.

Sources have told me that Triller has been looking into going public, through a SPAC. Is that still the plan?

Mahi de Silva: We're at that magic threshold where as a company, we have the income statement – in terms of revenue, earnings, growth potential – we have everything that you need to be a U.S. listed public company. So whatever vehicle we use to get there –whether an IPO, a SPAC, a direct listing – we've been very thoughtfully exploring all those options, and doing the right thing for both our shareholders and what's in the best interest of creating a growth vehicle for the company.

Do you expect Triller to go public one way or another this year?

Mahi de Silva: The timeline is something that we're not wedded to, because the public markets have different envelopes of opportunity. But we certainly think that it's possible to do it this year.

Triller has faced accusations that it's inflated its user accounts and shunned the need for proper music licensing. Why do you think the company continues to find its way into the middle of so many controversies?

Mahi de Silva: Those types of controversies are almost inevitable in a) the fact that we play in a very competitive environment, and b) everybody has a different way of measuring things. I think where people tend to get a little sideways is that we've talked about total engagement numbers, and we've talked about app engagement numbers, and those numbers are different. One of the reasons I'm here as CEO is to bring a little bit more rigor into how we do planning, how we focus on priorities and what numbers are really meaningful from a monetization standpoint, and what we make public.

As to music licensing, the labels are some of our most important partners in this journey. We absolutely take music licenses very seriously. I think we have disagreements with some of these entities because they look at numbers that maybe may have been talked about, like the total engagement numbers, versus what happens with content on our app. But we are quickly converging to resolving some of those, I'd say, misunderstandings. We totally embrace license holders and we think we're one of their most important partners.

Universal Music Group had some pretty harsh words for Triller, calling the company's response to the spat over publishing rights "removed from reality." As a board member at the time, were you concerned about that? And as CEO, do you see yourself in a position of power to try to correct some of those characterizations?

Mahi de Silva: I stand behind the conduct of the company throughout the history, ever since I've been involved, ever since Ryan and Bobby have been involved, about being very forthcoming about the facts of our business. Never have we tried to deceive anyone in the industry, particularly those people that we have commercial relationships with. Many of us have been in this business and had to negotiate these licenses. I myself, like I mentioned, in the ringtone business, negotiated with all these companies. Unfortunately, there's a tactic that says that, look, I'm going to use public opinion or sentiment to shape the outcome of a commercial relationship. And it's unfortunate when it gets to that. There may have been some misunderstandings, but we will quickly resolve them and we'll continue to have a very fruitful relationship with the labels.

What kind of misunderstandings are you referring to?

Mahi de Silva: This notion of what are the total users, how many people are we touching, in terms of our reach, with our network and our content, versus what is the reach of the app and what should be counted in the licensing conversation.

But the criticism that Triller received was related to its statement that it didn't need a license with Universal (note: Triller's statement at the time included, "Triller does not need a deal with UMG to continue operating as it has been since the relevant artists are already shareholders or partners on Triller, and thus can authorize their usage directly. Triller has no use for a licensing deal with UMG."). What's your view about the conversation escalating to that level?

Mahi de Silva: People try to use the public and press sentiment to try to shape commercial relationships. It's unfortunate that we get into that kind of noise. It's all just kind of positioning; it's not based in any kind of reality. The fact of the matter is we work with a very, very broad spectrum of creators and content. We want to facilitate the legal exchange of that content across our community of creators and users. So we want to invite in the maximum amount of content on our platform. If there are certain parties that feel they need extraordinary compensation to have that content work in our ecosystem, then they need to be ultimately disabused of that idea. We're not about trying to create an un-level playing field for folks that create, produce and distribute content. We're trying to democratize that. We think that there are very sane, fair terms to do that. We've been able to agree with a vast majority of content licensors around that concept, and I'm very confident that we'll do that with just about everyone.

You mentioned you're going to be bringing more rigor to the numbers. Would you say your style is a little different than Mike's? Was he a little more prone to getting involved in some of these public disputes than you plan to be?

Mahi de Silva: I think Triller has assembled a really amazing team of operating execs. We all have our strengths, we all have our weaknesses. I think the things that may be different is that a CEO kind of tries to set the tone, because our job is to create followership. As much as we like to lead, you have to have followers that buy into a vision and buy into a strategy. And I'm confident that we'll be able to bring that about.

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Luxurious Second Home Ownership without the Headache: How Pacaso is Changing the Landscape of Real Estate

🔦 Spotlight

Pacaso addresses the pain points of second home ownership, offering a luxurious, flexible, and financially sound alternative to traditional second homes and ultra-luxury hotels. Co-founded in 2020 by entrepreneur Austin Allison and former Zillow executive and prominent LA tech figure Spencer Rascoff, Pacaso, an unicorn startup, has redefined vacation home ownership with its unique co-ownership model. Rascoff's contributions to the LA tech scene extend beyond real estate; he also founded 75 & Sunny, an LA-based startup studio and venture fund, and co-founded dot.LA, an LA tech news and events company.

LA residents adore Pacaso for its lush vacation destinations that also make for smart investments. Pacaso offers everything from serene weekend getaways in Aspen to sophisticated escapes in Paris. Each residence, valued between $200k to over $2M for 1/8th, boasts meticulous design, high-end furnishings, and premium amenities. Unlike traditional second home ownership, which involves high costs, maintenance, and underutilization, or ultra-luxury hotels, which lack the personal touch and investment potential, Pacaso's co-ownership model offers a superior solution. Co-owners enjoy the benefits of a high-end vacation home without the full financial burden and hassle of sole ownership, making it a smarter and more flexible choice for discerning buyers.


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Head to Pacaso to learn more about its innovative co-ownership model that addresses the common challenges of second home ownership!


🤝 Venture Deals

LA Companies

  • Oak Essentials, the natural skincare brand founded by Jenni Kayne, has raised an undisclosed amount in Series A Funding from Silas Capital and Unilever Ventures. This investment will drive the brand’s expansion, focusing on product development, boosting marketing efforts, and expanding distribution channels. - learn more
  • Playhouse MD, an upcoming children’s healthcare platform that incorporates play to enhance health outcomes, has raised $4M in funding, according to a recent SEC filing. - learn more
  • FluidLogic, a high-performance hydration system provider, raised $15M in a Series A Extension led by Solyco Capital to support product development and innovation for adventure sports and outdoor endurance categories, with consumer products launching in early 2025. - learn more
  • Reflect Orbital, which uses in-space reflectors to direct sunlight to solar farms and large-scale lighting applications after sunset, has raised $6.5M in seed funding led by Sequoia Capital. The funding will help the company develop production vehicles and expand its team as it builds space-based energy infrastructure. - learn more

LA Venture Funds
  • Smash Capital led a €20M Series B round into Vilnius-based Ovoko, an e-commerce platform for buying and selling used car parts across Europe, marking Smash Capital's first investment in Lithuania. The funds will support Ovoko's product development, market expansion, and team growth as it aims to dominate the European market for second-hand automotive components. - learn more
  • M13 led a $9M Series A Funding Round for Zenlytic, the world’s first self-serve business intelligence platform. - learn more



LA Exits

  • Continuum Global Solutions’ healthcare vertical has been acquired by Everise, a customer service management company, enhancing Everise’s capabilities in pharmacy benefit management and expanding its growth prospects in the healthcare sector. - learn more
  • Radical Semiconductor, a company specializing in processing-in-memory technology, has been acquired by BTQ Technologies, a leader in post-quantum cryptography. This acquisition strengthens BTQ’s ability to secure data in the post-quantum era by integrating Radical Semiconductor's advanced technology portfolio. - learn more

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🎧The Essential Podcast Playlist for Entrepreneurs, Founders, Tech Pros, and VCs

Podcasts offer a front-row seat into the minds of the most successful entrepreneurs, VCs, and industry thought leaders. Whether you're scaling your startup, raising capital, or simply staying ahead of the game, these shows deliver invaluable insights, actionable lessons, and fresh inspiration. And let’s be honest, if you’re stuck in LA traffic (again), what better way to kill time than by learning from the best? Here’s a roundup of our top podcasts for entrepreneurs, founders, tech professionals, and VCs, complete with why they’re a must-listen.

Image Source: Apple Podcasts

The a16z Podcast

  • What it discusses: Covering a broad spectrum of topics like AI, blockchain, healthcare, and fintech, the podcast features interviews with founders, VCs, and tech leaders shaping the future.
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  • Why it’s great for entrepreneurs, founders, and VCs: This podcast brings cutting-edge insights from one of the top VC firms. Entrepreneurs will learn about emerging technologies, while VCs can stay ahead of investment trends shaping the future of tech.

Listen on: Spotify |Apple Podcasts



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Acquired Podcast

  • What it discusses: Acquired breaks down the stories behind major tech acquisitions, IPOs, and exits, dissecting the strategies and market dynamics involved.
  • Why you should listen: Gain deep insights into how tech giants build and sell, making it essential for anyone aiming to understand successful exits.
  • Why it’s great for entrepreneurs, founders, and VCs: Perfect for founders looking to scale or position themselves for acquisition. VCs will benefit from the deep dives into the playbooks of successful exits, offering valuable lessons on company growth and market positioning.

Listen on: Spotify |Apple Podcasts



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The All-In Podcast

  • What it discusses: From venture capital and tech trends to politics and economics, this podcast delivers unfiltered, candid commentary from high-profile industry insiders.
  • Why you should listen: It’s a no-holds-barred discussion on major issues affecting the tech industry, providing you with insider insights into the conversations that shape Silicon Valley.
  • Why it’s great for entrepreneurs, founders, and VCs: The candid, unfiltered conversations give listeners a peek into the decision-making processes of some of the biggest names in tech and VC. Entrepreneurs can gain valuable market insights, while investors will appreciate the high-level strategy discussions.

Listen on:Spotify | Apple Podcasts



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BG2 Podcast

  • What it discusses: BG2 takes you through macroeconomic trends, the tech market, venture capital insights, and cutting-edge technologies like AI. It’s a high-level conversation on tech investing.
  • Why you should listen: Brad and Bill’s deep experience in tech investing, combined with their straightforward, no-nonsense style, makes this a must-listen for tech insiders.
  • Why it’s great for entrepreneurs, founders, and VCs: Get insider-level insights into the macro trends driving tech investments. Founders will learn how to navigate these trends, while VCs can better understand the shifting forces in the venture world.

Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts



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Crucible Moments Podcast

  • What it discusses: The podcast dives into the pivotal, career-defining moments of top leaders and entrepreneurs. Guests share personal stories of resilience, growth, and how they overcame adversity.
  • Why you should listen: It’s packed with inspirational stories of grit and perseverance, offering lessons that apply to both life and business.
  • Why it’s great for entrepreneurs, founders, and VCs: The podcast’s focus on personal and professional resilience makes it especially valuable for entrepreneurs who need inspiration during tough times, and VCs who want to understand how founders overcome adversity.

Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts



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Grit Podcast

  • What it discusses: In-depth interviews with founders, executives, and leaders who share stories of navigating challenges, building resilience, and finding success in tough times.
  • Why you should listen: If you want raw, real stories of leadership and determination, this podcast offers invaluable insights into what it takes to lead in business.
  • Why it’s great for entrepreneurs, founders, and VCs: The podcast’s focus on perseverance and leadership makes it a must-listen for founders facing challenges in their business. VCs will gain insights into the traits that make strong, resilient founders.

Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts



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The Twenty Minute VC

  • What it discusses: Featuring short, insightful interviews with top VCs and founders, this podcast covers topics ranging from securing funding to scaling startups.
  • Why you should listen: Perfect for busy professionals who want quick, actionable advice on navigating the venture capital world.
  • Why it’s great for entrepreneurs, founders, and VCs: For busy entrepreneurs, this podcast delivers quick, actionable advice on funding and scaling. VCs can stay connected to the latest trends through bite-sized interviews with industry leaders.

Listen on: Spotify |Apple Podcasts


These podcasts are packed with insights, inspiration, and actionable advice for anyone looking to grow, innovate, or level up. Whether you're building something new, looking for investment know-how, or just eager to learn from those who've been there, each show has something valuable to keep you moving forward on your journey.

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📱From Digital IDs to AI Feeds: Tech Giants Shake Up the Digital World

🔦 Spotlight

Happy Friday Los Angeles!

This week, two tech titans, Apple and Snapchat, announced groundbreaking updates that are poised to reshape the way we interact with our digital devices. From secure digital IDs to personalized AI feeds, these innovations are set to have a significant impact on our daily lives.

Apple's Digital Driver's License: A Game-Changer for LA Residents

Apple has taken a major step forward in digital identity with the integration of California driver's licenses and state IDs into Apple Wallet. This initiative, part of the state's mobile driver's license (mDL) program, offers a more convenient and secure way for LA residents to carry their identification. With encrypted data and NFC-enabled verification, users can now use their digital IDs at TSA checkpoints, select retailers, and even for age verification at bars and restaurants.

The mDL program not only simplifies travel and everyday transactions but also presents exciting opportunities for LA-based startups specializing in fintech, cybersecurity, and identity verification. As digital IDs become more widely adopted, these startups can innovate to create new applications and services that leverage this technology.


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Snapchat's AI-Powered Feed and Enhanced AR: A Personalized Experience

Snapchat is undergoing a major transformation with its most significant redesign in years, focusing on simplicity and personalization. The app now offers a more personalized experience, with an AI-driven "For You" feed that curates content tailored to individual preferences. Additionally, Snapchat has enhanced its augmented reality (AR) tools, opening up new possibilities for interactive experiences and creative expression.

LA's thriving tech ecosystem, particularly its startups focused on AI and AR, stands to benefit greatly from Snapchat's innovations. These updates provide opportunities for local developers to create complementary technologies and explore new partnerships within Snapchat's evolving platform.

Impact on LA's Tech Ecosystem

Both Apple's and Snapchat's updates underscore a growing trend toward personalization, security, and streamlined user experiences. LA's tech scene, with its vibrant startup community and strong focus on innovation, is well-positioned to capitalize on these shifts.

As digital experiences become more integrated into our daily lives, LA's startups can explore new frontiers in AI, AR, and secure mobile technologies. This wave of innovation is set to drive growth and collaboration within the local tech ecosystem, solidifying LA's reputation as a global hub for cutting-edge technology.


🤝 Venture Deals

LA Companies

  • PictorLabs, an AI-powered histopathology platform that enhances disease detection, has raised a $30M Series B led by Insight Partners. The company has now raised a total of $48.8 million. - learn more
  • Mellomanic, formerly We Are Giant, has raised a $6M Funding Round, bringing its total capital to $13.8M, to expand its platform and enhance its music experiences for artists and fans, backed by investors including Sterling Partners. - learn more

    LA Venture Funds

    • Mucker Capital participated in a $2.5M Seed Round for Tab Commerce, a fintech company providing financial management solutions to transform how restaurants handle their spending and optimize operational efficiency. - learn more
    • Finality Capital led a $3.2M Seed Round for RISE, a Gigagas Layer 2 blockchain platform designed to enhance scalability and reduce transaction costs. - learn more


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