"There is a Money Grab Going On" Should Startups Apply for Taxpayer-Funded Aid?

Ben Bergman

Ben Bergman is the newsroom's senior finance reporter. Previously he was a senior business reporter and host at KPCC, a senior producer at Gimlet Media, a producer at NPR's Morning Edition, and produced two investigative documentaries for KCET. He has been a frequent on-air contributor to business coverage on NPR and Marketplace and has written for The New York Times and Columbia Journalism Review. Ben was a 2017-2018 Knight-Bagehot Fellow in Economic and Business Journalism at Columbia Business School. In his free time, he enjoys skiing, playing poker, and cheering on The Seattle Seahawks.

"There is a Money Grab Going On" Should Startups Apply for Taxpayer-Funded Aid?

There is still considerable confusion about whether venture-backed startups are eligible to apply for the $349 billion in forgivable loans being furiously doled out by the Small Business Administration. But there's also another more complicated ethical question being debated on social media and within the startup community: Should they apply?

"VC backed companies already have so many advantages over bootstrapped [small businesses]...they don't need another one paid for by taxpayers," tweeted David Jackson, founder and CEO of FullStack Labs, a Sacramento-based software consultancy. "VC's own these companies...time for them to put their money into their companies."

As one might imagine, Jackson's company is not venture funded. But it's not just those on the outside that are posing the question.


"There is a money grab going on right now by some venture-backed startups that this program absolutely should exclude," wrote Albert Wenger, a partner at Union Square Ventures (USV), a New York-based early stage VC firm focused on investing in disruptive networks. "I urge everyone who is running a venture backed company with a lot of money in the bank and limited COVID-19 impact to think twice about applying for PPP. In the end this is obviously a difficult decision but we are in a crisis where true leadership means thinking beyond one's own concerns."

On the one hand, many VC's and startups argue that businesses are businesses and it should not matter how a company is funded. And even if startups get more capital from VC's, companies may very well not use that money to retain employees, which is a requirement for taking the stimulus money.

Those opposed to venture-backed startups getting aid argue that the government is only giving out finite amount of money, so it's unfair for companies with much easier access to capital be taking funds that could go to struggling mom-and-pop businesses. They also argue that since VC's are in the business of funding risky enterprises and reap a big reward when a company does succeed, it is unfair to expect a taxpayer-funded loan with things go south. Some have mocked what they see as startups trying to contort themselves to be eligible for help:

Mark Suster, the most prominent VC in Los Angeles in his capacity as managing partner of Upfront Ventures, has been urging startups to use discretion when applying.

"The PPP is meant for companies under duress," tweeted Suster. "If you're early stage, doing remote development and not really impacted - it's NOT intended for you. Just taking a hand-out of 'public money' intended for people who need it is wrong."

Asked whether he was advising Upfront companies to apply, Suster texted: "I am not advising anybody to apply" and he said he was urging companies to go through a checklist he posted online assessing whether they are in financial trouble, have to lay off employees, and if they qualify.

"It's not 'free money' and should only be taken if truly needed and if you truly qualify," Suster said. "But if you believe it to be the case then apply quickly because it's 'first come, first served.'"

Brian Garrett is co-founder and managing director of CrossCut Ventures.

Courtesy Crosscut Ventures

Brian Garrett, co-founder and managing director of the early-stage fund, CrossCut Ventures, said he is still working through the qualification criteria with his bankers and lawyers but he anticipates most of his portfolio will seek aid.

"We expect that a very large percentage of our companies, and all startups, will apply for PPP loans to protect their teams and their businesses," he said.

The original wording of the Payroll Protection Program, which was part of the $2 trillion stimulus package designed to keep the economy afloat during the coronavirus, included an "affiliation rule" that would require startups to count all the employees of other startups that their VC investor has backed, likely putting many startups over the 500-employee threshold, even if the companies are completely separate.

The National Venture Capital Association, an industry trade group, has lobbied vigorously for a change to the rules. "Startups are as vulnerable as other small businesses to this economic crisis," NVCA President and CEO Bobby Franklin wrote in a letter to the Treasury Department urging new guidelines.

But Jackson, the CEO who opposes venture-backed startups from applying, says the requirements are not an oversight and that if Congress intended to include venture-backed startups, it would have done so. "The intent of the law is clear," he said.

Jackson said when he thinks about companies that should qualify it is the idled cleaning service or window washers with only a few employees that would normally be servicing his offices.

"The cleaning company doesn't have access to investors," said Jackson. "They don't have any other options. In my view, those are companies that this bill is meant to protect."

He has not decided yet whether his company, which is bootstrapped, will apply for aid. But he's concerned by what he sees as venture-backed companies trying to circumvent the affiliate requirements by rewriting their charters.

"It feels a little funny to me," he said. "There are people who deserve the money and people who don't."

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How the 'Thrift Haul' Boosted Secondhand Ecommerce Platforms

Lon Harris
Lon Harris is a contributor to dot.LA. His work has also appeared on ScreenJunkies, RottenTomatoes and Inside Streaming.
How the 'Thrift Haul' Boosted Secondhand Ecommerce Platforms
Evan Xie

If you can believe it, it’s been more than a decade since rapper Macklemore extolled the virtues of thrift shopping in a viral music video. But while scouring the ranks of vintage clothing stores looking for the ultimate come-up may have waned in popularity since 2012, the online version of this activity is apparently thriving.

According to a new trend story from CNBC, interest in “reselling” platforms like Etsy-owned Depop and Poshmark has exploded in the years since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic and lockdown. In an article that spends a frankly surprising amount of time focused on sellers receiving death threats before concluding that they’re “not the norm,” the network cites the usual belt-tightening ecommerce suspects – housebound individuals doing more of their shopping online coupled with inflation woes and recession fears – as the causes behind the uptick.

As for data, there’s a survey from Depop themselves, finding that 53% of respondents in the UK are more inclined to shop secondhand as living costs continue to rise. Additional research from Advance Market Analytics confirms the trend, citing not just increased demand for cheap clothes but the pressing need for a sustainable alternative to recycling clothing materials at its core.

The major popularity of “thrift haul” videos across social media platforms like YouTube and TikTok has also boosted the visibility of vintage clothes shopping and hunting for buried treasures. Teenage TikToker Jacklyn Wells scores millions of views on her thrift haul videos, only to get routinely mass-accused of greed for ratching up the Depop resell prices for her coolest finds and discoveries. Nonetheless, viral clips like Wells’ have helped to embed secondhand shopping apps more generally within online fashion culture. Fashion and beauty magazine Hunger now features a regular list of the hottest items on the re-sale market, with a focus on how to use them to recreate hot runway looks.

As with a lot of consumer and technology trends, the sudden surge of interest in second-hand clothing retailers was only partly organic. According to The Drum, ecommerce apps Vinted, eBay, and Depop have collectively spent around $120 million on advertising throughout the last few years, promoting the recent vintage shopping boom and helping to normalize second-hand shopping. This includes conventional advertising, of course, but also deals with online influencers to post content like “thrift haul” videos, along with shoutouts for where to track down the best finds.

Reselling platforms have naturally responded to the increase in visibility with new features (as well as a predictable hike in transaction fees). Poshmark recently introduced livestreamed “Posh Shows” during which sellers can host auctions or provide deeper insight into their inventory. Depop, meanwhile, has introduced a “Make Offer” option to fully integrate the bartering and negotiation process into the app, rather than forcing buyers and sellers to text or Direct Message one another elsewhere. (The platform formerly had a comments section on product pages, but shut this option down after finding that it led to arguments, and wasn’t particularly helpful in making purchase decisions.)

Now that it’s clear there’s money to be made in online thrift stores, larger and more established brands and retailers are also pushing their way into the space. H&M and Target have both partnered with online thrift store ThredUp on featured collections of previously-worn clothing. A new “curated” resale collection from Tommy Hilfiger – featuring minorly damaged items that were returned to its retail stores – was developed and promoted through a partnership with Depop, which has also teamed with Kellogg’s on a line of Pop-Tarts-inspired wear. J.Crew is even bringing back its classic ‘80s Rollneck Sweater in a nod to the renewed interest in all things vintage.

Still, with any surge of popularity and visibility, there must also come an accompanying backlash. In a sharp editorial this week for Arizona University’s Daily Wildcat, thrift shopping enthusiast Luke Lawson makes the case that sites like Depop are “gentrifying fashion,” stripping communities of local thrift stores that provide a valuable public service, particularly for members of low-income communities. As well, UK tabloids are routinely filled with secondhand shopping horror stories these days, another evidence point as to their increased visibility among British consumers specifically, not to mention the general dangers of buying personal items from strangers you met over the internet.

How to Startup: Mission Acquisition

Spencer Rascoff

Spencer Rascoff serves as executive chairman of dot.LA. He is an entrepreneur and company leader who co-founded Zillow, Hotwire, dot.LA, Pacaso and Supernova, and who served as Zillow's CEO for a decade. During Spencer's time as CEO, Zillow won dozens of "best places to work" awards as it grew to over 4,500 employees, $3 billion in revenue, and $10 billion in market capitalization. Prior to Zillow, Spencer co-founded and was VP Corporate Development of Hotwire, which was sold to Expedia for $685 million in 2003. Through his startup studio and venture capital firm, 75 & Sunny, Spencer is an active angel investor in over 100 companies and is incubating several more.

How to Startup: Mission Acquisition

Numbers don’t lie, but often they don’t tell the whole story. If you look at the facts and figures alone, launching a startup seems like a daunting enterprise. It seems like a miracle anyone makes it out the other side.

  • 90% of startups around the world fail.
  • On average, it takes startups 2-3 years to turn a profit. (Venture funded startups take far longer.)
  • Post-seed round, fewer than 10% of startups go on to successfully raise a Series A investment.
  • Less than 1% of startups go public.
  • A startup only has a .00006% chance of becoming a unicorn.

Ouch.

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From The Vault: VC Legend Bill Gurley On Startups, Venture Capital and Scaling

Spencer Rascoff

Spencer Rascoff serves as executive chairman of dot.LA. He is an entrepreneur and company leader who co-founded Zillow, Hotwire, dot.LA, Pacaso and Supernova, and who served as Zillow's CEO for a decade. During Spencer's time as CEO, Zillow won dozens of "best places to work" awards as it grew to over 4,500 employees, $3 billion in revenue, and $10 billion in market capitalization. Prior to Zillow, Spencer co-founded and was VP Corporate Development of Hotwire, which was sold to Expedia for $685 million in 2003. Through his startup studio and venture capital firm, 75 & Sunny, Spencer is an active angel investor in over 100 companies and is incubating several more.

Bill Gurley in a blue suit
Bill Gurley

This interview was originally published on December of 2020, and was recorded at the inaugural dot.LA Summit held October 27th & 28th.

One of my longtime favorite episodes of Office Hours was a few years ago when famed venture capitalist Bill Gurley and I talked about marketplace-based companies, how work-from-home will continue to accelerate business opportunities and his thoughts on big tech and antitrust.

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