'More Songs, But Not More Streams': Former Spotify Executive on the Future of Music Technology

Sam Blake

Sam primarily covers entertainment and media for dot.LA. Previously he was Marjorie Deane Fellow at The Economist, where he wrote for the business and finance sections of the print edition. He has also worked at the XPRIZE Foundation, U.S. Government Accountability Office, KCRW, and MLB Advanced Media (now Disney Streaming Services). He holds an MBA from UCLA Anderson, an MPP from UCLA Luskin and a BA in History from University of Michigan. Email him at samblake@dot.LA and find him on Twitter @hisamblake

'More Songs, But Not More Streams': Former Spotify Executive on the Future of Music Technology

dot.LA sat down with Will Page, former chief economist of Spotify, and Ed Buggé, partner at leading L.A. entertainment law firm Hertz Lichtenstein Young & Polk, to discuss the future of music tech. The two explore livestreaming post-pandemic, the growing glut of music fighting for attention and potential new streaming regulations.


Assume the pandemic is over and we're all waking up to whatever resembles business-as-normal in the world of music and tech. What jumps out to you?

Will Page (WP): Live Nation's stock price has already reached its pre-pandemic peak, suggesting the market's mood is that we're indeed well on our way back to normal. But all the advancements in livestreaming won't go away once live music returns. The question is, how do they coexist?

Ed Buggé (EB): The sense of what's "normal" in music and wider media is constantly being challenged and disrupted, with the pandemic accelerating much of that change. That's what's so exciting about where we are now: There won't be a return to old ways of doing things.

Returning sectors like live concerts will coexist alongside new developments like the increased volume of livestreaming, which proliferated as artists used them to connect with fans during lockdown. Which livestreaming companies thrive once things normalize will depend on the quality of their tech, including VR and AR components that offer fans an immersive experience worthy of their attention in a world where physical shows are once again an option, (and) how well they enable artists to reach audiences on a previously unprecedented scale.

Will Page

Will Page was Spotify's chief economist.

How does music's battle for attention look coming out of the pandemic?

EB: Competition for attention is only going to increase as post-lockdown life returns. Livestreaming and live concerts is just one example. There will be more songs, as independent distributors and service providers continue to grow. Social media, gaming and fitness industries will likely increase their power to dictate viral hits. And artificial intelligence will keep shaping music discovery and listening experiences – including "lean back" listening while other activities command our attention.

WP: Audio streams flattened in the second half of 2020 - that's a trend worth watching in 2021. We can expect more subscribers and more songs, but not more streams. The constraint of attention — only 24 hours in a day — will keep biting as kids game, teens TikTok and adults podcast.

Given that constraint, what's your take on whether 2020's flurry of investment into music copyright will continue?

Ed Bugge

Ed Buggé is a partner at L.A. entertainment law firm Hertz Lichtenstein Young & Polk.

EB: Publishing catalogues are now firmly established as an asset class. The eye-catching prices being paid for them, with some acquisition multiples above 20-times annual earnings, is a long-term investment relying on the assumption that hit songs will continue to command attention for decades. Given the competition between potential purchasers right now, it's a great time to be an established songwriter with a catalogue to sell.

WP: I think there's too much trajectory logic at the moment. It's worrying that some people think that as the pie gets bigger, a given catalog's share of the pie will remain the same. There are too many variables (and not enough equations) for past performance to be a good indicator of the future. The next cohort of listeners could have a completely different demographic, geographic and cultural makeup from the last.

How can talented musicians get ahead of the curve when it comes to technological trends and position themselves for success?

EB: In such a crowded marketplace there needs to be something remarkable about what you are doing. The music, your story – the creative needs to stand out.

Once you've leapt that hurdle, the artist teams that will stay ahead are those who are prepared to embrace change. At the start of the year, breaking tracks through TikTok or gaming collaborations were innovative strategies; now they've quickly become established methods. That's the pace of change that we are seeing at the moment. So the question is - what's next and how can you be a part of it?

WP: Here's one example: I'm obsessed with the 'early access' model in gaming, where you monetize a new game whilst it's still in development. Minecraft is an early example, but to date, it rarely happens anywhere outside gaming. I think that may be about to change. Music can't afford to disappear into the studio for two years any more. It'll need to pivot and monetize whilst still in the studio.

The British government is currently examining whether the streaming economy needs reform. How might that ultimately ripple into the broader world of music-tech?

WP: This is a big one. Expect contagion as many more major music markets are called up in front of their respective governments in 2021 as politicians seek to establish (a) whether the streaming model is fair and (b) if it's not, whether intervention is merited. What's been made clear is there's a problem with the 'trickle down' economics of streaming. The UK government has a first-mover opportunity to explore ways of fixing this.

EB: With the pace of change in music and media, you inevitably have a legal and regulatory framework that has to play catchup. If the British government looks to enact legislation to alter the economics of streaming in favor of the artist, then it may act as a standard that regulators in other territories follow.

WP: Radio and television are heavily regulated, but streaming is not. The U.K. is taking steps to work out the 'if' and 'if so, how?' and the U.S. should be tracking developments here closely.

Beyond what we've covered, what else will you be watching for in 2021 music tech?

EB: Technology will continue to enable an increasingly direct relationship between artists and their fans. For example, providing access to exclusive content, physical and virtual merch drops and livestreaming concerts, as well as the ability for fans to communicate more directly, both with artists and with each other.

WP: Kevin Kelly (co-founder of "Wired") penned his 1,000 True Fans essay back in 2008, predating the launch of streaming. Now, it feels like we're subconsciously revisiting it. After all these years of success in music streaming with Amazon, Apple and Spotify, it's still largely impossible to directly pay for your favorite artists, nor can you communicate with them. You're seeing companies like Twitch make impressive moves into this space; MixCloud is also fostering direct relationships with curators. There's going to be more of that in 2021. Fans want to express their love to their artists directly, not via a platform.

Finally, what's in store for the Los Angeles music tech world in 2021?

EB: In L.A. we're seeing a wave of media and technology startups that will continue to disrupt and drive change in the industry. The high activity levels across fundraising and M&A also seems set to continue, as new players enter the market and incumbents focus on future-proofing their business models in such a fast-evolving landscape. There are few more exciting places to be right now.

WP: I'm not a native of Los Angeles, (as much as I want to move there), but what always strikes me about the city is the diversity of its people: Little Tokyo, K-Town, Tehrangeles, even one or two fellow Scots. Yet what I still don't see is media serving these expat populations. This is a universal problem and it leaves money on the table. I'd be hopeful that we'll see a new startup solve for curating to the diaspora in 2021.

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

https://twitter.com/hisamblake
samblake@dot.la
The New Face of Live Shopping: Whatnot’s $5B Journey

🔦 Spotlight

Hello Los Angeles,

This week has been a challenging one for many in our city as we continue to face the aftermath of the recent wildfires. Recovery efforts are in full swing, and as always, the strength and resilience of our community shine through.

If you or someone you know has been impacted, there are resources available to help navigate this difficult time:

  • Pacific Palisades Fire Damage Maps: View here

These tools can provide support, whether you’re looking for financial assistance, housing resources, or updates on affected areas.

While our community focuses on recovery, we’re also reminded of what makes LA unique: its unrelenting drive to build, create, and innovate. A great example this week comes from Whatnot, the live shopping platform co-founded in 2019 by Grant LaFontaine and Logan Head, which has just achieved a major milestone.

Whatnot announced it raised $265 million in Series E funding, valuing the company at an impressive $5 billion.

For those unfamiliar, Whatnot combines shopping and entertainment through live-streamed auctions. Think of it as a vibrant, interactive marketplace where sellers showcase everything from trading cards and collectibles to fashion items, all in real time. Buyers can bid during the stream, creating a sense of excitement and connection that feels more personal than traditional online shopping.

The company’s new funding—co-led by Greycroft, DST Global, and Avra Capital—will drive expansion into markets like Australia and bring improvements to seller tools, from inventory management to advanced analytics. But what stands out most is Whatnot’s focus on its people. CEO Grant LaFontaine announced plans to buy back $72 million in shares for long-term employees, a move that underscores the company’s dedication to sharing its success.

As we move forward, let’s celebrate stories like these that show how innovation thrives in LA—even amid challenges. Whether it’s supporting wildfire recovery, building the next great startup, or simply connecting with others, we each play a role in shaping the spirit of our city.


🤝 Venture Deals

LA Companies

  • Phase Four, a leader in advanced in-space propulsion systems, announced the first close of its Series C funding round, securing nearly 60% of the target raise, led by Artemis Group Capital, to ramp up production of its Valkyrie Hall Effect Thrusters to at least 250 units annually and develop cutting-edge propulsion technologies for defense and national security needs. - learn more
  • Proper, a next-generation supplement brand launched by fitness entrepreneur Amanda Kloots, secured investment from Ben Bennett's Beauty Accelerator, The Center, to redefine the supplement industry with innovative, nutrient-focused wellness solutions tailored for modern lifestyles. - learn more
LA Venture Funds
  • Sound Ventures participated in a $17M funding round for Reshop, a platform simplifying the returns process for consumers and merchants, with plans to use the funds to enhance their technology and expand their services. - learn more
  • LFX Venture Partners participated in a $30M strategic funding round for Shippeo, a Paris-based company specializing in real-time multimodal supply chain transportation visibility; the funds will support Shippeo's global expansion, particularly across North America and the Asia-Pacific region. - learn more
  • Amboy Street Ventures participated in a $15M Series A+ funding round for Granata Bio, a biotechnology company focused on developing advanced gene therapies; the proceeds will be used to accelerate the development of their pipeline and expand their research capabilities. - learn more
  • BAM Ventures participated in a $700,000 seed funding round for MX Locker, an online marketplace for buying and selling motocross gear and parts; the company plans to use the proceeds to enhance its platform and expand its user base. - learn more
  • Crosscut Ventures participated in a $7.15M seed funding round for SoloPulse, an Atlanta-based company developing advanced radar technology; the funds will be used to enhance their product development and expand market reach. - learn more
  • Starburst Ventures participated in Loft Orbital’s $170M Series C funding round, bringing the San Francisco-based satellite infrastructure provider’s total capital raised to $280 million, with the funds aimed at accelerating their "condosat" missions to simplify and expand access to space. - learn more
  • Overture VC participated in a $100M Series B funding round for Harbinger, a Southern California-based electric vehicle company specializing in medium-duty EVs; the funds will be used to accelerate the production of their electric vehicle platforms. - learn more
  • Muse Capital and Time BioVentures participated in an $18M Series A funding round for Conceivable Life Sciences, a New York-based biotech company developing the world's first AI-powered automated IVF lab; the funds will support their ongoing commercial pilot program in Mexico City and preparations for a U.S. launch targeted for early 2026. - learn more
  • B Capital Group participated in a $25M Series B funding round for Labviva, a Boston-based AI-driven procurement platform for life sciences; the funds will be used to accelerate product development, enhance marketing and customer support, and expand internationally. - learn more
  • Focalpoint Partners participated in a seed funding round for Kerna Labs, a San Francisco-based AI biotechnology company focused on advancing mRNA payload design for new therapies, with the funds supporting operational expansion and development efforts. - learn more

LA Exits

  • Intracom Systems, a pioneer in software-based communication solutions, has been acquired by IPC, a global leader in trading communications technology, to enhance IPC's SaaS communications offerings for the financial services industry. - learn more
  • Adexa, a provider of advanced supply chain planning solutions, has been acquired by Eyelit Technologies to enhance its Manufacturing Operations Management (MOM) and Manufacturing Execution Systems (MES) offerings and expand its market presence. - learn more
  • Caramel, a platform specializing in simplifying online vehicle transactions, has been acquired by eBay to enhance its offerings for secure and streamlined automotive buying and selling experiences. - learn more
  • ImaginAb, a biotechnology company specializing in antibody-based imaging and therapeutic solutions, has been acquired by Telix Pharmaceuticals to expand its next-generation therapeutic assets and biologics technology platform. - learn more
  • Sleepypod, a global leader in crash-test-certified safety harnesses and carriers for pets, has been acquired by Paw Prosper to enhance its commitment to pet well-being and expand its portfolio of innovative pet safety solutions. - learn more

Download the dot.LA App

Standing Together Through the Flames

🔦 Spotlight

To our Los Angeles family,

This week’s wildfires have brought immense pain and hardship to our beloved city. Many of our friends, neighbors, and colleagues have faced evacuations, power outages, and the devastating loss of homes and livelihoods. Our hearts go out to everyone affected by this tragedy.

At dot.LA, we want to express our deepest sympathy to those suffering in this moment. We see your resilience and stand with you during this challenging time. This community has always been defined by its strength and compassion, and now is the time to come together in support.

If You or Someone You Know Has Been Impacted, Resources Are Available:

Evacuation Shelters:

  • Calvary Community Church: 5495 Via Rocas, Westlake Village, CA 91362
  • Ritchie Valens Recreation Center: 10736 Laurel Canyon Blvd., Pacoima, CA 91331
  • Pan Pacific Recreational Center: 7600 Beverly Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90036
  • Westwood Recreation Center: 1350 Sepulveda Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90025
  • Pasadena Civic Auditorium: 300 East Green Street, Pasadena, CA 91101
  • Pomona Fairplex: 1101 W McKinley Ave, Pomona, CA 91768
  • Stoner Recreation Center: 1835 Stoner Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90025

Animal Shelters:

Small Animals:

  • Agoura Animal Care Center: 29525 Agoura Rd, Agoura Hills, CA 91301
  • Baldwin Park Animal Care Center: 4275 Elton St, Baldwin Park, CA 91706
  • Carson Animal Care Center: 216 W Victoria St, Gardena, CA 90248
  • Downey Animal Care Center: 11258 Garfield Ave, Downey, CA 90242
  • Lancaster Animal Care Center: 5210 W Ave I, Lancaster, CA 93536
  • Palmdale Animal Care Center: 38550 Sierra Hwy, Palmdale, CA 93550

Large Animals:

  • Pomona Fairplex: 1101 W McKinley Ave, Pomona
  • Industry Hills Expo: 16200 Temple Ave, City of Industry, CA 91744
  • Antelope Valley Fair: 2551 W Avenue H, Lancaster, CA 93536
  • Los Angeles Equestrian Center: 480 W Riverside Dr, Burbank, CA 91506
  • Pierce College Equestrian Center: 7100 El Rancho Dr, Woodland Hills, CA 91371

Disaster Relief Information:

  • LA County Assessor: Information for property owners and FAQs about disaster relief.

Mental Health Support:

  • Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health: Crisis counseling and support for those affected. Access services through their website or call their hotline at (800) 854-7771.

Temporary Housing Support:

  • Airbnb: In partnership with 211 LA, offering free temporary housing for displaced residents. Spaces are limited; complete the form to be notified of availability.

Transportation Support:

  • Uber: Use promo code WILDFIRE25 for 2 free rides up to $40 each to/from active shelters.
  • Lyft: Code CAFIRERELIEF25 offers 2 rides up to $25 each for up to 500 riders, valid until 1/15.
  • Metro: Fare collection is suspended systemwide.

Staying Informed:

  • Watch Duty App: Provides real-time wildfire tracking, evacuation warnings, and updates.
  • Los Angeles Fire Department Alerts: Visit their website for the latest information on fire status and safety guidelines.

Safety Precautions:

  • Ready, Set, Go!: Personal Wildfire Action Plan by the Los Angeles County Fire Department.

To those in our community who are volunteering, donating, or offering aid in any form—thank you. Your efforts embody the spirit of LA: strong, compassionate, and unstoppable.

At dot.LA, we’re committed to amplifying stories of resilience and support. If you’ve seen inspiring acts of kindness or have resources to share, please let us know. Together, we can shine a light on the incredible ways this community is stepping up during these trying times.

In the days ahead, let’s hold tight to the bonds that unite us and remember that we are stronger together. The fires may scar the land, but they cannot dim the collective spirit of Los Angeles.

We’re here for you, and we’re with you.

    Download the dot.LA App

    A Strong Finish to 2024 for LA Tech: Crosscut Ventures Leads the Way

    🔦 Spotlight

    Happy Friday LA!

    As we close the book on 2024, Los Angeles has had a remarkable year in tech and venture capital. From groundbreaking funding rounds to industry-defining innovations, the city’s tech ecosystem has showcased its ability to adapt and thrive. Among the year’s final highlights was the announcement that Crosscut Ventures, one of LA’s premier early-stage venture capital firms, has added Jon Ylvisaker as its newest Partner.

    Crosscut Ventures’ Bold New Direction

    Announced in late December, Jon Ylvisaker’s appointment reflects Crosscut Ventures’ commitment to advancing its focus on the energy transition. Ylvisaker brings decades of experience in driving investments in energy technologies and digital infrastructure. As the founding partner and managing director of Yield Capital Partners, he led investments in startups and established companies shaping the future of sustainability. At Wolfacre Global Management, a Tiger Management hedge fund, he further honed his expertise in supporting impactful climate-focused solutions.

    Brian Garrett, Managing Director and Co-Founder of Crosscut Ventures, said, “Jon's extensive experience in climate and digital infrastructure investments, coupled with his impressive track record of bringing groundbreaking technologies to market, makes him the ideal partner to help lead our focus.”

    Since its founding in 2008, Crosscut has played a key role in shaping LA’s tech landscape. Ylvisaker’s addition reinforces the firm’s commitment to addressing global challenges like energy transition and sustainability, further solidifying its leadership in venture capital innovation.

    What’s Next for LA Tech in 2025

    The momentum from 2024 has set the stage for an even bigger year ahead. Entrepreneurs, investors, and innovators in LA are poised to take on new challenges and create meaningful change across industries.

    As we step into 2025, we want to thank everyone who helped make 2024 such a standout year. Here’s to another year of progress, innovation, and success. From all of us at dot.LA, Happy New Year!

    🤝 Venture Deals

    LA Companies

    • First Resonance, a company specializing in digital manufacturing software through its ION Factory OS, has raised a $20M funding round led by Third Prime with participation from Blue Bear Capital and others. This brings its total funding to $36M and will be used to accelerate product development, grow its customer base, and enhance support for advanced manufacturing sectors like aerospace, robotics, and clean energy. - learn more
    LA Venture Funds
    • Finality Capital Partners led a $17M Seed funding round for ChainOpera AI, a California-based company developing blockchain networks for AI-powered agents and applications, to accelerate product development, expand its team and enhance its blockchain and AI integration capabilities. - learn more

    LA Exits

    • Thirteen Lune, an inclusive beauty e-commerce platform, has been acquired by SNR Capital, marking a significant milestone in the platform's mission to amplify underrepresented beauty brands while fueling its next stage of growth. - learn more
    • Ergobaby, a leading brand in juvenile products known for its high-quality baby carriers, has been acquired by Highlander Partners. The acquisition aims to bolster Ergobaby’s growth, expand its product offerings, and strengthen its position in the parenting solutions market. - learn more

    Download the dot.LA App

    RELATEDEDITOR'S PICKS
    Trending