Meet the LA Startup That Lets People Talk to the Dead

Christian Hetrick

Christian Hetrick is dot.LA's Entertainment Tech Reporter. He was formerly a business reporter for the Philadelphia Inquirer and reported on New Jersey politics for the Observer and the Press of Atlantic City.

Meet the LA Startup That Lets People Talk to the Dead
Photo courtesy of StoryFile

A month after she died at the age of 87, Marina Helen Smith spoke at her own funeral.

Smith, the co-founder of the U.K.’s National Holocaust Centre and Museum, addressed her friends and family last week through a prerecorded video. Yet Smith was able to answer some questions during the memorial service, too. After her son, Stephen Smith, asked what she’d say at her funeral, she delivered a brief speech about her life and spirituality. She also answered questions about loved ones who attended the ceremony, creating the illusion of a real-time conversation.


Smith’s interactive video was made using tech from her son’s startup, Los Angeles-based StoryFile. Launched in 2017, the company lets people create videos that can reply to viewers’ questions, using artificial intelligence (AI) to play relevant video clips as responses. Initially conceived as a way to preserve stories of Holocaust survivors and talk to other historical figures, StoryFile’s videos are now showing up at funerals, CEO Stephen Smith said. After losing his mother, Smith understands why.

“I don't find it in the least bit weird to bring up my mother's StoryFile and talk to her,” he told dot.LA. “It's strange to say that but it feels, actually, very natural.”

StoryFile is part of an emerging tech trend practically pulled from the plot of a sci-fi novel. Tech companies have made tools that let people talk to the dead, from digital memorials to chatbots impersonating the deceased. In addition to helping people mourn and remember loved ones, such programs can serve as educational tools. But experts warn similar tech has been deployed for nefarious purposes, like spreading misinformation.

In June, Amazon showed how its Alexa virtual assistant could read a bedtime story in a dead relative’s voice, based on a short audio recording of the deceased person. It’s unclear whether that capability will become an Alexa feature, as it remains in an “exploratory research” stage, a company spokesperson told dot.LA.

Microsoft has also shown an interest in virtually reviving the dead, patenting a chatbot that pulls data from a person’s social media posts. More recently, the software giant said it would restrict customer use of AI that can impersonate someone’s voice, noting the tech “has exciting potential” but could be used to “deceive listeners.”

Tech bringing the dead back to life has shown up in Hollywood, too, and not just as a storyline for Netflix’s “Black Mirror.” In 2019, Disney included late actress Carrie Fisher in a “Star Wars” film by combining real footage of her face with a completely digital character.

StoryFile’s videos aren’t that creepy. At least not yet. The 40-person startup doesn’t put words in anyone’s mouth or try to create new facial expressions like so-called “deepfake” videos. The StoryFile clips use only pre-recorded answers for a limited—but still long—list of possible questions. If you pose a question the subject doesn't have a recorded answer to, they’ll encourage you to ask something else.

That said, StoryFile’s Smith showed dot.LA demos of its more advanced “digital recreations,” which would let people talk to historical figures like Elvis and Albert Einstein, who obviously were unavailable for interviews. Smith believes such videos could potentially be educational, letting students of the future learn physics from a digital Einstein.

StoryFile co-founder and CEO Stephen Smith.Photo courtesy of StoryFile

The StoryFile idea can be traced to 2010 when Smith’s wife, Heather Maio-Smith, was creating a historical exhibit about Holocaust survivors. She wanted to create “engaging conversations” that would let people interview survivors rather than simply hearing a “linear” oral history, Stephen Smith said. They developed the interactive interviews through a partnership with the University of Southern California. Eventually, the Smiths launched StoryFile to capture stories from historical figures and everyday people. Heather serves as StoryFile’s chief visionary officer.

“How do you communicate best with the past? It's when you ask questions about the past,” Stephen Smith said. “It becomes a relationship with the past, not just that history that's told to you.”

StoryFile’s Conversa AI has been used to create interactive interviews with the still-living likes of actor William Shatner and, more recently, Clarence Jones, the personal counsel of Martin Luther King Jr. The company also has commercial clients using interactive video for customer service or employee training. StoryFiles popping up at funerals, however, was a total surprise, Smith said. Late actor Ed Asner’s memorial notably included such a video.

Other startups see a market opportunity in interactive digital memorials. El Cerrito-based HereAfter AI pairs user photos and audio interviews to similarly let family members talk to recordings of loved ones on their computers, smartphones or smart speakers. Cofounder and CEO James Vlahos got the idea after creating “Dadbot,” a chatbot that shared his father’s life story and personality when he was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer.

Actor William Shatner is interviewed for an interactive video inside StoryFile's L.A. studio.Photo courtesy of StoryFile

Some HereAfter AI customers have recorded interviews for up to 10 hours, Vlahos told dot.LA. “Once you get people rolling, talking about their lives, they have a lot to say,” he noted. The market for this kind of product is still relatively small, with only a handful of direct competitors, he said.

Like StoryFile, HereAfter AI doesn’t use its tech to generate answers to questions that weren’t asked during an interview. Vlahos called that a “sensitive area.” On one hand, letting AI form its own responses would make the chat experience more flexible and powerful. On the other, synthesizing what grandpa might have said starts “crossing that line,” Vlahos said.

“We might get it wrong, and that might be really hurtful to someone,” he said. “Or if nothing else, it might be kind of creepy.”

More advanced “deepfakes,” which use AI to create convincing video and audio hoaxes of someone’s likeness, have gained widespread attention and criticism. Recently, a fake clip of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy made it look like he surrendered to Russia. Fraudsters could deploy similar programs to steal someone’s identity, too, experts said. Unlike the living, dead people can’t correct the record if a video is bogus, creating a unique set of ethical and philosophical questions.

Legitimate commercial ventures deploying the tech make sure users know they’re not talking to a real or living person, said Arizona State University professor Subbarao Kambhampati, who teaches computer science. “But the real issue is, what if you don't know? And that can be very easily done,” he added. As such tech becomes more ubiquitous, Kambhampati predicts more people won’t trust their eyes and ears.

“I think in the longer term, we will get used to it. We will no longer just directly trust what we are hearing and seeing,” he said. “But it's the transition that's going to be tricky, because many people can be taken because we still tend to believe what we hear, what we see, so that skepticism has to increase.”

The tech could also be applied in the metaverse, a nascent vision for the internet where we might work, shop and socialize inside 3D virtual environments. Students may one day strap on virtual reality headsets and watch Abraham Lincoln deliver the Gettysburg Address—then ask the president some follow up questions.

“I think there's a lot of good that will come out of this,” said Majid Abai, founder and CEO of Seena AI, a software and app development firm in Los Angeles. “Now, not only can I see a video, but I can also put a headset on and meet up with a loved one in the metaverse.”

In January, Stephen Smith asked his mother scores of questions over two days to record her StoryFile. She spoke candidly about her upbringing in India and childhood difficulties transitioning to England. Smith said he learned new things about her past, such as when she had measles as a child and was put in quarantine for four months, seperated from her parents.

“I didn’t know that story. She never mentioned it,” Smith said. “Things that she'd [previously] not revealed were revealed. I was grateful for that information about her.”

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How the 'Thrift Haul' Boosted Secondhand Ecommerce Platforms

Lon Harris
Lon Harris is a contributor to dot.LA. His work has also appeared on ScreenJunkies, RottenTomatoes and Inside Streaming.
How the 'Thrift Haul' Boosted Secondhand Ecommerce Platforms
Evan Xie

If you can believe it, it’s been more than a decade since rapper Macklemore extolled the virtues of thrift shopping in a viral music video. But while scouring the ranks of vintage clothing stores looking for the ultimate come-up may have waned in popularity since 2012, the online version of this activity is apparently thriving.

According to a new trend story from CNBC, interest in “reselling” platforms like Etsy-owned Depop and Poshmark has exploded in the years since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic and lockdown. In an article that spends a frankly surprising amount of time focused on sellers receiving death threats before concluding that they’re “not the norm,” the network cites the usual belt-tightening ecommerce suspects – housebound individuals doing more of their shopping online coupled with inflation woes and recession fears – as the causes behind the uptick.

As for data, there’s a survey from Depop themselves, finding that 53% of respondents in the UK are more inclined to shop secondhand as living costs continue to rise. Additional research from Advance Market Analytics confirms the trend, citing not just increased demand for cheap clothes but the pressing need for a sustainable alternative to recycling clothing materials at its core.

The major popularity of “thrift haul” videos across social media platforms like YouTube and TikTok has also boosted the visibility of vintage clothes shopping and hunting for buried treasures. Teenage TikToker Jacklyn Wells scores millions of views on her thrift haul videos, only to get routinely mass-accused of greed for ratching up the Depop resell prices for her coolest finds and discoveries. Nonetheless, viral clips like Wells’ have helped to embed secondhand shopping apps more generally within online fashion culture. Fashion and beauty magazine Hunger now features a regular list of the hottest items on the re-sale market, with a focus on how to use them to recreate hot runway looks.

As with a lot of consumer and technology trends, the sudden surge of interest in second-hand clothing retailers was only partly organic. According to The Drum, ecommerce apps Vinted, eBay, and Depop have collectively spent around $120 million on advertising throughout the last few years, promoting the recent vintage shopping boom and helping to normalize second-hand shopping. This includes conventional advertising, of course, but also deals with online influencers to post content like “thrift haul” videos, along with shoutouts for where to track down the best finds.

Reselling platforms have naturally responded to the increase in visibility with new features (as well as a predictable hike in transaction fees). Poshmark recently introduced livestreamed “Posh Shows” during which sellers can host auctions or provide deeper insight into their inventory. Depop, meanwhile, has introduced a “Make Offer” option to fully integrate the bartering and negotiation process into the app, rather than forcing buyers and sellers to text or Direct Message one another elsewhere. (The platform formerly had a comments section on product pages, but shut this option down after finding that it led to arguments, and wasn’t particularly helpful in making purchase decisions.)

Now that it’s clear there’s money to be made in online thrift stores, larger and more established brands and retailers are also pushing their way into the space. H&M and Target have both partnered with online thrift store ThredUp on featured collections of previously-worn clothing. A new “curated” resale collection from Tommy Hilfiger – featuring minorly damaged items that were returned to its retail stores – was developed and promoted through a partnership with Depop, which has also teamed with Kellogg’s on a line of Pop-Tarts-inspired wear. J.Crew is even bringing back its classic ‘80s Rollneck Sweater in a nod to the renewed interest in all things vintage.

Still, with any surge of popularity and visibility, there must also come an accompanying backlash. In a sharp editorial this week for Arizona University’s Daily Wildcat, thrift shopping enthusiast Luke Lawson makes the case that sites like Depop are “gentrifying fashion,” stripping communities of local thrift stores that provide a valuable public service, particularly for members of low-income communities. As well, UK tabloids are routinely filled with secondhand shopping horror stories these days, another evidence point as to their increased visibility among British consumers specifically, not to mention the general dangers of buying personal items from strangers you met over the internet.

How to Startup: Mission Acquisition

Spencer Rascoff

Spencer Rascoff serves as executive chairman of dot.LA. He is an entrepreneur and company leader who co-founded Zillow, Hotwire, dot.LA, Pacaso and Supernova, and who served as Zillow's CEO for a decade. During Spencer's time as CEO, Zillow won dozens of "best places to work" awards as it grew to over 4,500 employees, $3 billion in revenue, and $10 billion in market capitalization. Prior to Zillow, Spencer co-founded and was VP Corporate Development of Hotwire, which was sold to Expedia for $685 million in 2003. Through his startup studio and venture capital firm, 75 & Sunny, Spencer is an active angel investor in over 100 companies and is incubating several more.

How to Startup: Mission Acquisition

Numbers don’t lie, but often they don’t tell the whole story. If you look at the facts and figures alone, launching a startup seems like a daunting enterprise. It seems like a miracle anyone makes it out the other side.

  • 90% of startups around the world fail.
  • On average, it takes startups 2-3 years to turn a profit. (Venture funded startups take far longer.)
  • Post-seed round, fewer than 10% of startups go on to successfully raise a Series A investment.
  • Less than 1% of startups go public.
  • A startup only has a .00006% chance of becoming a unicorn.

Ouch.

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From The Vault: VC Legend Bill Gurley On Startups, Venture Capital and Scaling

Spencer Rascoff

Spencer Rascoff serves as executive chairman of dot.LA. He is an entrepreneur and company leader who co-founded Zillow, Hotwire, dot.LA, Pacaso and Supernova, and who served as Zillow's CEO for a decade. During Spencer's time as CEO, Zillow won dozens of "best places to work" awards as it grew to over 4,500 employees, $3 billion in revenue, and $10 billion in market capitalization. Prior to Zillow, Spencer co-founded and was VP Corporate Development of Hotwire, which was sold to Expedia for $685 million in 2003. Through his startup studio and venture capital firm, 75 & Sunny, Spencer is an active angel investor in over 100 companies and is incubating several more.

Bill Gurley in a blue suit
Bill Gurley

This interview was originally published on December of 2020, and was recorded at the inaugural dot.LA Summit held October 27th & 28th.

One of my longtime favorite episodes of Office Hours was a few years ago when famed venture capitalist Bill Gurley and I talked about marketplace-based companies, how work-from-home will continue to accelerate business opportunities and his thoughts on big tech and antitrust.

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